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Chapter 13 - April 4, 2003 AM - Episode 4

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Q:        Is there currently a dispute with hackoff over whether work has been completed?

A:         Yes. A minor dispute.

Q:        How much money is involved in this dispute?

A:         One-hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

Q:        Had you discussed this dispute with the deceased?

A:         Yes.

Q:        When?

A:         On the night of March 31.

Q:        Where did you see him on the night of March 31?

A:         In his office.

Q:        At what time?

A:         Approximately 11:00 PM — the time of our appointment.

Q:        You are sure about this time?

A:         Yes.

Q:        When did you last see him alive?

A:         When I left his office.

Q:        When was that?

A:         Approximately 11:30 PM.

Q:        Did you see him dead?

A:         No. I last saw him alive when I left his office at 11:30 PM.

Q:        Mr. Qali, I have a very serious problem with what you’re telling me. I don’t think you’re telling me the truth.

A:         I am telling you the truth.

Q:        Mr. Qali, there is very sophisticated alarm and detection system in the offices of hackoff.com. It would have showed if anyone entered the deceased’s office during the time you claim to have been there. I’m giving you this information so you will have a chance to tell me the true story of when you last saw the deceased and where you were on the night he died.

A:         I have told you the true story.

Q:        Surveillance shows that you did not enter the deceased’s office when you said you did. Do you still insist that you did?

A:         I did. Surveillance simply does not show it.

Q:        What do you mean?

A:         Surveillance does not show me entering Mr. Larry Lazard’s office...

Q:        That’s what I just said.

A:         It is not.

Q:        We can play the tape back if you would like.

A:         It is not necessary. You said that surveillance SHOWS that I did not enter Mr. Larry Lazard’s office. That is incorrect. It is true that it does NOT show me entering the office, but that is not the same as showing that I did not enter.

Q:        Come again?

A:         The alarm system was programmed to ignore me when I came into his office just as it was programmed to ignore my entry into the building, my use of the elevator, and my entry into the hackoff.com offices.

Q:        How do you know that?

A:         I programmed it to do that.

Q:        Go on.

A:         That is why it did not show me entering the office; it was programmed to ignore me.

Q:        Why did you do that?

A:         Because Mr. Lazard instructed me to do it.

Q:        Why would the deceased tell you how to turn off his alarm system? When did he do that?

A:         Mr. Lazard gave me the access codes to make the alarm system insensitive to me — it wasn’t turned off,just insensitive to me — so that we could have private visits. He gave me the codes last year.

Q:        How does the system recognize you?

A:         By my RFID.

Q:        I understand that hackoff employees have RFIDs in their badges. Why do you have one? Does it belong to a hackoff employee?

A:         No. I am a hackoff contractor. I have a contractor badge. It has an RFID. This also gives me access to the building and the offices and activates the elevator to take me to their floor.

Q:        You’re not on the elevator surveillance tapes.

A:         I am told surveillance is deactivated by the code I was given.

Q:        The deceased gave you a code so that you could enter his office without being detected. Why was he trying to keep your visits secret?

A:         He told me that there was resentment over the outsourcing to the cooperative so that the less people who knew we were meeting, the better.

Q:        Was there any particular person he wanted to keep your visits secret from?

A:         He didn’t say.

Q:        What do you think?

A:         I don’t know.

Q:        Could he have wanted to keep Mr. Montain from knowing about your visits? You have already identified Mr. Montain as someone who resented the outsourcing.

A:         I don’t know.

Q:        What do you think?

A:         It is possible. I don’t know.

Q:        Did anyone see you enter or leave the deceased’s office?

A:         Mr. Larry Lazard saw me.

Q:        He’s unlikely to corroborate your story. Did anyone besides the deceased see you enter or leave the office?

A:         Not that I am aware of.

Q:        Did anyone who is still living see you enter or leave the hackoff premises? The building itself?

A:         Not that I am aware of. Sometimes there are homeless people near the entrance but I do not remember them being there.

Q:        How did you get to and from hackoff? Where were you immediately before and where did you go immediately after?

A:         I went to hackoff.com from my apartment and returned there. I took a taxi in each case.

Q:        Did you keep the taxi receipts?

A:         I believe I did.

Q:        Do you have them with you, by any chance?

A:         I do not.

Q:        Are you willing to fax them to me today?

A:         I will not be able to do that until later tonight.

Q:        That’s okay. Did anyone see you leave your apartment and return?

A:         Miss Roth saw me leave.

Q:        Did she see you return?

A:         No.

Q:        Why not?

A:         I did not see her. I believe she was asleep.

Q:        You don’t sleep in the same room?

A:         No.

Q:        Do you know she was there when you returned?

A:         I am not certain.

Q:        A moment ago you said you believed she was asleep. Now you are saying that you don’t even know if she was there.

A:         That is correct.

Q:        What made you think she might be there asleep?

A:         Her door was closed.

Q:        Couldn’t she have closed her door and gone out?

A:         Yes.

Q:        What made you think she was there behind the closed door?  Did you hear her snoring?

A:         If I had heard her snoring, I would have known she was there. I do not know if she was there.

Q:        But you believed she was there?

A:         Yes.

Q:        Why?

A:         Her coat was in the closet. She was there at 7:00 AM when I came into the kitchen.

Q:        What was she wearing when you came into the kitchen?

A:         A bathrobe.

Q:        Had she put makeup on? Did she look like she had just gotten up or just come in?

A:         I don’t know.

Q:        Did anyone else see you leave or return?

A:         Not that I know of. Except the taxi drivers.

Q:        You didn’t see anyone at hackoff besides the deceased?

A:         I saw Mrs. Langhorne.

Q:        You just told me no one saw you enter or leave hackoff.

A:         I don’t believe she saw me enter or leave.

Q:        But you saw her?

A:         That is correct.

Q:        Where did you see her?

A:         I saw her in the corridor that goes to Mr. Larry Lazard’s office.

Q:        But she didn’t see you?

A:         I don’t believe so. She had her back to me and was walking in the same direction I was.

Q:        You know her?

A:         I do.

Q:        But you didn’t say hello?

A:         I did not.

Q:        Why not?

A:         Mr. Lazard wished to keep our visits private.

Q:        What if she had seen you? Certainly she might have turned around or been walking the other way.

A:         Then she would have seen me.

Q:        What about keeping visits private?

A:         Then this visit would not have been private. It was not a secret that the cooperative did work for hackoff. Mrs. Langhorne herself was involved ... is involved in paying the bills.

Q:        What was Ms. Langhorne wearing?

A:         I don’t remember.

Q:        Was she wearing slacks or a skirt or a dress?

A:         I believe she was wearing slacks.

Q:        What kind of shoes was she wearing?

A:         I don’t remember.

Q:        How was her hair arranged?

A:         I don’t remember.

Q:        Was it down and around her shoulders?

A:         I don’t think so.

Q:        Was it braided?

A:         I don’t think so. Perhaps it was fastened in back.

Q:        How could you be sure it was Ms. Langhorne? You only saw her from the back.

A:         I am sure.

Q:        Do you expect the work for hackoff to continue following the death of the deceased?

A:         I do not know. I hope so.

Q:        Why would it not continue?

A:         Mr. Montain does not wish to work with the cooperative.  I do not know how much influence he will have on Mrs. Langhorne.

Q:        How does Ms. Langhorne feel about outsourcing to the cooperative?

A:         I don’t know.

Q:        She pays your bills, though?

A:         She pays bills that Mr. Larry Lazard tells her to pay.

Q:        Tell me about your discussion with the deceased.

A:         What discussion?

Q:        The discussion you had on the night of March 31 in his office between 11:00 PM and 11:30 PM.

A:         I discussed with him the matter of the work we have completed and not been paid for.

Q:        Did he agree that you had completed the work and should be paid for it?

A:         He did agree.

Q:        Had he been aware of the dispute prior to your visit?

A:         He had.

Q:        Was it the only subject of your meeting?

A:         It was.

Q:        Did he know it would be the subject of your meeting?

A:         He did.

Q:        How was the meeting set up?

A:         I called Mr. Larry Lazard.

Q:        When did you do that?

A:         Earlier that day.

Q:        At what time did you call him?

A:         At approximately 11:00 AM.

Q:        And what did you tell him on this phone call?

A:         I told him that there was a dispute.

Q:        Was he surprised?

A:         He was not.

Q:        He already knew about the dispute?

A:         Apparently.

Q:        How did he know about the dispute?

A:         I do not know. Perhaps Mr. Montain told him.

Q:        Could Ms. Langhorne have told him?

A:         She could have.

Q:        Did you later learn who told him about the dispute?

A:         I did not.

Q:        Did you discuss the dispute on the phone call setting up the meeting?

A:         I already told you that.

Q:        You told me that you set up a meeting to discuss the dispute. You did not tell me whether you discussed the substance of the dispute on the call. Did you?

A:         We discussed the dispute briefly.

Q:        Did you attempt to settle the dispute on the telephone?

A:         We did not.

Q:        Why not?

A:         Mr. Lazard said that he had to get more information.

Q:        Did he say who he would get this information from?

A:         He did not.

Q:        Would that have been Ms. Langhorne or Mr. Montain?

A:         I don’t know.

Q:        What do you think?

A:         I don’t know.

Q:        But it is possible he talked to one or both of them about the dispute after your phone call and before your meeting in his office?

A:         It is possible.

Q:        Why was a meeting set up? Why not another phone call or an email after the deceased got the information he wanted?

A:         We felt it would be better to meet.

Q:        Whose idea was it to meet in person?

A:         I don’t remember.

Q:        Did you think it was a good idea to meet in person?

A:         It was what we agreed to do.

Q:        Was it your idea to meet in person?

A:         I have already told you that I don’t remember.

Q:        You said there had been such disputes in the past?

A:         That’s correct.

Q:        Did you meet in person to resolve those disputes?

A:         Sometimes we did and sometimes we did not.

Q:        Was this dispute different than the other disputes?

A:         The amount of money was larger.

Q:        So that made you want to meet in person?

A:         I have already told you that I do not remember whose idea it was to meet in person.

Q:        Did you have any communication with the deceased between the time that you made the appointment and when you saw him in his office?

A:         I did not.

Q:        Did you tell anyone else about the meeting you planned to have with the deceased?

A:         I did not.

Q:        You didn’t tell Ms. Roth?

A:         No.

Q:        Did you resolve your dispute with the deceased?

A:         My dispute was not with the deceased... Oh, sorry, I misunderstood your question. The dispute concerning our work was ... resolved, yes.

Q:        You don’t sound certain. Was it completely resolved?

A:         It was.

Q:        What was the resolution?

A:         We did the work. We would be paid.

Q:        In full?

A:         In full.

Q:        Immediately?

A:         We did not discuss timing.

Q:        Why not? Doesn’t it matter when you get paid?

A:         It was not a matter of concern. Our experience has been that hackoff pays its bills promptly once they are approved by Mr. Lazard.

Q:        How did you convince the deceased that the work had been done and that the payment should be made? Surely he would have had questions.

A:         Mr. Lazard had already determined what work had been done. He had looked into it before I got there. He was satisfied.

Q:        Then why was it necessary for you to meet?

A:         I ... I don’t understand the question. The meeting had been scheduled.






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