Chapter 8 - April 2, 2003 - Episode 4Listen to podcast
Interview with Louise Lazard Continued
Q: Can you think of any reason why anyone would want to kill Larry?
A: Everyone who knew Larry wanted to kill him at one time or another, even me. He had that effect on people. I suppose if I had a lawyer here he would tell me not to say that, but it’s the truth. Larry really offended people sometimes, especially after he got out of prison. That’s what people said about him, that he took no prisoners.
But I can’t think of anyone we know who would really do it. And I’ve been thinking about that; I’ve been thinking about it a lot, because I know he was murdered and everyone is trying to call it suicide. Larry wouldn’t kill himself. It wasn’t an accident either, so somebody had to have shot him.
Q: Who do you think of specifically when you think of people who might have killed him?
A: I think it had to be someone he knew, because I hear there’s no sign of a struggle. Also it had to be someone who knew the gun was in his office and who had some way to get to it. So there are all the people in the office. I can’t really believe any of them would have done it, but they could have. And Larry was getting along even worse than usual with the people in the office.
Q: Had he told you about any particular or unusual friction with anybody?
A: Yes and no. I already told you that he was getting along worse and worse with Dom and even Donna. But those relationships had been going down hill for a while. He hadn’t told me anything specific.
Q: When was the last time you saw Larry?
A: A week ago Sunday morning, after the night we spent together in the Soho Grand.
Q: Did you talk to him after that?
A: Sure. Even separated we talked on the phone almost every day. And we emailed each other.
Q: When was the last time you talked?
A: Two days ago. The night he was killed. He said he was in the office and that he had a late meeting.
Q: Did he say who the meeting was with? Did you ask?
A: No and no. He didn’t tell and I didn’t ask. To tell the truth, he sounded like he was lying and I couldn’t stand listening to that. I thought he might have been planning to go out.
Q: Would it be unusual for him to have a late meeting at the office?
A: No. The technical people, the programmers, they like to work at night. So sometimes Larry would meet with them late, sort of to show that he was one of them. They respected him because he was a programmer once, not just a business man. And because of “Gotcha”, too.
Q: Who else did he meet with at night? Assuming he did have a meeting planned, who do you think it might have been with?
A: He might have met at night with almost anybody in the company. All of them prided themselves on keeping long hours, but the programmers more than others. Sometimes the charities we’re involved with meet at night. That’s usually not in the office, of course, except if they need a place to meet. I think he would have told me if that’s what it was, though. I wish I’d asked.
Q: Did he say anything on that phone call that would make you think he was depressed?
A: No. And I told you: he didn’t kill himself.
Q: Did he say anything that would lead you to think he was apprehensive about the meeting?
A: No. I’ve thought about that so much I was afraid I’d start remembering things that weren’t there. But he didn’t sound especially apprehensive.
Q: What did you talk about on that call besides his meeting?
A: We talked about Dom. He said that Dom had quit and that this time he wasn’t going to talk him out of quitting.
Q: Had Dom quit before?
A: That’s what it sounded like, but I’d never heard that he’d quit before. So I asked Larry about that. He just said that Dom was a baby; that he never grew up; that he was a prima donna; he wasn’t going to kow-tow to him or beg him to stay. He was ranting.
Q: Do you think Dom could have killed Larry?
A: Well, I thought about it, of course. It’s certainly a surprising coincidence that Dom quits and Larry is murdered. I can’t see Dom pointing a gun at anybody; it’s not his style. And I like Dom. But still, I thought, he had access and he had motive, I guess. But he didn’t do it. He had an ironclad alibi.
Q: How do you know that?
A: I talked to Dom the night of the murder. I called him on his cell phone. He was at West 10th Squared. We used to go there with him when we were all friends. I know the bartender Kelly O’Kelly so I called her. She told me Dom was there all night.
Q: You checked on Dom’s alibi?
A: I told you, detective, I want to know who murdered my husband. I didn’t think it could be Dom but I had to be sure.
Q: You’re very thorough. How do you know the bartender wasn’t covering for Dom?
A: She wouldn’t have known there was anything to cover for. I called her after you called me to say that my husband was dead. But no one knew yet. There hadn’t been any publicity. So I called Kelly and said I was worried about Dom. She knows I care about Dom; she even knew I had called Dom that night. So we chatted. She said Dom seemed depressed. But she also said he never left the place until it closed.
Q: You called the bartender and had a chat right after we told you your husband was dead?
A: I had to do something.I couldn’t just sit here and cry. But I didn’t learn anything except that it wasn’t Dom. That helped a little.
Q: You never know what helps when you’re investigating. Would Ms. O’Kelly have noticed if Dom had left for half-an-hour and come back? It wouldn’t have taken long to get from there to hackoff and back again.
A: Almost certainly. She sees everything that happens in the bar. And she’s close to Dom. I think they were lovers for a while, and they’re very good friends now. She was worried about him, too, and she would have noticed if he’d gone.
Q: Why did you call Dom that night?
A: To try to talk him into staying. I knew Larry was too proud to do that but I like Dom; I think he’s done a lot for the company. I think he’s a good person. And I think he and Larry love each other in some strange way.
Q: What did Dom say when you asked him to stay?
A: “NFW.” That’s exactly what he said. But he was glad I called. I could tell he was a little high and hoped when he calmed down he’d change his mind. I told him that.
Q: Then what did he say?
A: He thanked me for calling. Said I was a good person. He started to say that he didn’t know how I could be married to a person like Larry but he stopped himself and just said “thank you”.
Q: Were you and Dom ever intimate?
A: I guess it makes sense for you to ask, but no. We are good friends; I enjoy his company; I like the way he’s always playing games. And I think he likes my company, too. Probably thinks of me more like his mother even though he’s older than me — Larry’s age. But he never grew up.
Q: This is another of those questions I have to ask...
Q: Were you unfaithful to Larry at any time during your marriage?
A: No. Never. Not even once. Not even when I knew he was unfaithful to me. That would have been the end for me. Somehow it would have been worse for me, even harder to get over, if I were the one that was unfaithful.
Q: Please tell me where you were between 7:00 PM and 3:00 AM Monday night.
A: I was wondering when you’d get to that. I was here the whole time. I had a meeting of the local United Way Chapter in the afternoon, stopped to do some shopping, and got home about six. You called me here about 7:30 the next morning. I didn’t go out.
My alibi’s not as good as Dom’s, though. I was alone. I only made two phone calls that night and nobody called me on my home phone except Larry and a couple of telemarketers. I called my mother around nine and Dom around one when I couldn’t sleep and was worried about him. A board member from United Way called, but she called on my cell phone so that doesn’t prove I was here.
Q: What time was that?
A: About 10:00 PM but why does that matter? It was on the cell phone.
Q: We can tell what cell tower your call went through. That tells us roughly where you were. It certainly can tell us whether you were in New Jersey or New York City. But, of course, there would have been time after that for you to go to New York.
A: I appreciate how thorough you are; I really do. I’ve been afraid that it would be convenient for everybody to believe Larry killed himself.
Q: Thank you. What were you doing when you were here alone and not talking on the phone?
A: Watching a TiVo-ed movie. Since Larry’s been at the Soho Grand I’ve been watching a lot of television. TiVo saves me from just having to watch whatever crap is on.
Q: TiVo may also have given you an alibi.
Q: TiVo records almost everything you do using it. It sends that information back to the company. They use it for marketing. But it turns out to be a useful way for us to know whether someone was here pushing TiVo’s buttons. We’ll check that, of course.
A: Of course. Who do you think killed Larry?
Q: Even if I had a theory, even if I was convinced this is a murder, I wouldn’t be able to tell you. Your first suspect was Dom and you cleared him in your mind by calling the bartender. You said you think it had to be someone he knew. Do you have any more theories? Have you been doing any more investigating?
A: I wish I could investigate more. I hate this. I hate Larry being dead. And me not doing anything. I think and think and sometimes I think if I think hard enough I’ll have a clue and sometimes I think I’ll just go crazy.
Q: I don’t need to bother you any more right now. Again, I’m sorry. And I’d like to say personally that I admire your investigating on your own just after ... I mean in such hard...
A: I know what you mean. Thank you.
Q: If you do think of anything — anything at all — you have my card. Anything you think of, no matter how strange, don’t filter it. Just tell me.
A: Thank you. I will.Q: Thank you for your cooperation.